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Crackpots
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Anze Slosar



Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 198
Affiliation: Brookhaven National Laboratory

PostPosted: December 29 2009  Reply with quote

Fringe science is recently making cosmocoffee even more noisy. The problem is that deleting such threads brings up all the usual chatter about galileo, censorship, etc. What if the following is implemented:

a) Editors have a full power to revoke posting rights to anyone, regardless of their affiliation, etc. This should only be done in the obvious cases.

b) Create new Fringe Science section. Call it anything you like. Every thread that is crackpotish is moved to this section by editors. Given that crack traffic is still a couple of posts a day at max, this should not be to difficult.
(i volonteer as a policeman... :) )

c) We still allow anonymous and unlimited postings to "Understanding Cosmology" section.
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Anonymous






PostPosted: December 29 2009  Reply with quote

Anze Slosar wrote:
Fringe science is recently making cosmocoffee even more noisy.

Here we go again, Anze complains once more about "crackpots" and noise.

Dear Anze, did it ever occur to you that the noise level is high not because of a handful crackpot posts, but rather because there are next to no posts beside trivial requests for assistance with software issues? Why do you think that is? Why do you think it's been years since anyone has been willing to try having a serious discussion here, and what little there has been has all been anonymous?

Do you really not get it?
Anze Slosar wrote:
The problem is that deleting such threads brings up all the usual chatter about galileo, censorship, etc.

Can't say I have seen any of that. I do think it was a bad idea to delete recent threads by/with Oldershaw, not because he wrote anything sensible, but because he didn't, and had it explained to him. With those threads gone, you can count on him to just do it all over again.
Anze Slosar wrote:
What if the following is implemented:

a) Editors have a full power to revoke posting rights to anyone, regardless of their affiliation, etc. This should only be done in the obvious cases.

AFAIK that's how it's always been. To state the obvious, when a handful of editors can – and do – delete posts and revoke posting rights in a publicly viewable forum such as this, only somebody who implicitly trusts the editors fully will consider posting anything. The editors must be trusted to know what they are doing and they must be trusted to be honest about it.

Still mystified as to why there are so few posts?
Anze Slosar wrote:
b) Create new Fringe Science section. Call it anything you like. Every thread that is crackpotish is moved to this section by editors. Given that crack traffic is still a couple of posts a day at max, this should not be to difficult.
(i volonteer as a policeman... :) )

Dear Anze, your knowledge of physics ends somewhere around Quantum Mechanics 101. You are exactly the kind of person who will complain about "crackpots", demand that only qualified people be allowed to post, let in an Oldershaw (because hey, he's published and affiliated!) and then delete the evidence of your blunder when it finally becomes painfully obvious even to you that by letting him in under the current rules, you implicitly endorsed somebody who is not only on, but well beyond the fringe.

Still not getting it? You are not qualified to police anything, and your recurring attempts to play such a role speak volumes about your mindset.
Anze Slosar wrote:
c) We still allow anonymous and unlimited postings to "Understanding Cosmology" section.

Because without that, there would be no posts at all, other than software support requests.

This is a farse. You have proposed nothing new, other than making you a "policeman" who can be trusted to kill what little might be left of anyone's interest in this forum.

CosmoCoffee could have been great. It could have been a place to learn, to throw out wild ideas and pick them apart, to discuss and – yes! – to vehemently disagree and occasionally joke around. Instead, thanks not least to you, it's now little more than a graveyard, and not even a respectable one.
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Anze Slosar



Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 198
Affiliation: Brookhaven National Laboratory

PostPosted: December 29 2009  Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Here we go again, Anze complains once more about "crackpots" and noise.

Well, at least you know who am I, but who are you? Given your clarity about how things really stand, it would be good to know the name...
Anonymous wrote:
Dear Anze, did it ever occur to you that the noise level is high not because of a handful crackpot posts, but rather because there are next to no posts beside trivial requests for assistance with software issues? Why do you think that is? Why do you think it's been years since anyone has been willing to try having a serious discussion here, and what little there has been has all been anonymous?

Actually, I've been asking this myself as well. And the problem is, I think, that people at respectable institutions who know what they are talking about, usually have a million journal clubs, seminars, one-to-one talks with each other and they can clarify and discuss science in direct conversation, which is always much faster than going through forum. Plus there is no paper trail. Crackpots at cosmocoffee are not the root of the problem, but they are making things worse... And, btw, I do not consider myself any more qualified than then any half-reasonable grad student for policing the forum and I have also never instituted any rules as I am not an admin.
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Gil Holder



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 27
Affiliation: McGill University

PostPosted: December 31 2009  Reply with quote

I suspect the paper trail is a structural problem here. I probably say something that is obviously wrong several times a day, and the fun is in sorting these things out and figuring out the various inconsistencies. That is less fun when there is a public and permanent log. On the other hand, I have no problems admitting in perpetuity that I suck at getting compilers to work.
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Anonymous






PostPosted: January 01 2010  Reply with quote

One man's "crackpot" is another man's visionary scientist.

Know what I mean Anze? Take John Baez, for example. Or Paul Davies, or a consummate choice might be Don Page or the science fiction writer: Vilenkin.

The way to sort it out is with Definitive Predictions.

The way to maintain confusion [and funding] is by producing, promoting and defending untestable pseudoscience.

Robert L. Oldershaw
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Anonymous






PostPosted: January 07 2010  Reply with quote

Gil Holder wrote:
I suspect the paper trail is a structural problem here.

You may find this little piece interesting: Networking Reconsidered.
Quote:
In the classical networking approach, the game is about presenting yourself in the most favorable light possible while flattering the other person into giving you their contact information. This approach quickly degenerates into a manipulative exchange where the real identities of both parties rapidly recede into the background, replaced by carefully staged presentations of an artificial self. These staged interactions rarely build trust. In fact, they usually have the opposite effect, putting both parties on guard and reinforcing wariness and very selective disclosure.

A learning disposition leads to a very different approach. Now the effort focuses on understanding the needs of the other, with a particular focus on understanding the biggest issues others are wrestling with. This requires intense curiosity, deep listening and empathy that seeks to understand the context that other person is operating in. It also requires willingness to disclose vulnerabilities, since it is often hard to get the other person to share their most challenging issues without a sense that you are willing to do the same.

[...]
Quote:
This often requires discussing publicly the issues you are wrestling with so others can become aware of them and seek you out if they are confronting similar issues. This can be very uncomfortable for most of us, because we are reluctant to expose provisional ideas and acknowledge that we are struggling with developing those ideas.

I think we all know which mode CosmoCoffee is currently running in.
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Anonymous






PostPosted: January 07 2010  Reply with quote

This reminds me of a question that has plagued me for decades, and is as follows.

What the hell is wrong with a complete committment to openness and honesty?

The benefits of sincere [and tactful] honesty far outweigh the risks and occasional problems that are incurred in this approach. On the other hand the secretive, selfish, manipulative approach that treats rigorous honesty as optional seems guaranteed to be highly sub-optimum in the long run.

Honesty is like cooperation: if everyone follows this path we are all better off, so what fool would do anything different? Ah, but such is the human dilemma and condition. Why? Greed? Fear? Paranoia? All of the above?

RLO
www.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw
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Anonymous






PostPosted: April 27 2010  Reply with quote

Here some expanded description of the informational conception (some expanded compilation of ideological sections of

http://arXiv.org/abs/0812.2819 and http://arXiv.org/abs/physics/0703043 ) appeared

– see

http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.3712

Cheers
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Anonymous






PostPosted: June 02 2010  Reply with quote

Now more systematical description of informational model in physics appeared – see

http://arxiv.org/abs/0812.2819 , V5; though it remains be rater desirable to have read the paper http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.3712 before/ also.

As it seems the SR theory becomes be more understandable.

So what is about an experiment with measurement of photon beam distortion in Earth gravity?

Cheers.
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Anonymous






PostPosted: November 11 2010  Reply with quote

Now the paper with a description of some experiments aimed at a testing of the informational model in physics appeared – see http://arxiv.org/abs/0706.3979, v2.

So what’s about those experiments?

Cheers
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Anonymous






PostPosted: May 05 2011  Reply with quote

Now a little changed version of the paper with a description of some experiments aimed at a testing of the informational model in physics appeared – see http://arxiv.org/abs/0706.3979, v3.

So what’s about those experiments?

Cheers

And - the thread seems as well visited, but has no questions, comments, remarks. May be it is looked through by editors of "official" philosophical and physical journals only...

Cheers again
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Anonymous






PostPosted: October 05 2011  Reply with quote

Now a special paper relating to Space-Time problem appeared in arXiv: http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.0003

So what is about suggested in http://arxiv.org/abs/0706.3979 experiments?

Possibly the version of an experiment in [Conclusion of] http://arxiv.org/abs/0706.3979 , relating to special relativity, is non-clear a little. So the same but simpler to understand (but possibly not simpler as the technique) version is as:

Let one satellite with two clocks moves through an orbit with [orbital] speed V. By using a rigid rod one of the clocks (clock−2) is transferred on the rod’s length L along the speed vector. Since we have a rigid system, clock−2 obtains the time decrement [-VL/c2] relating to clock−1. If one returns the rod slowly to the clock−1, both clocks will show equal times. But if clock−2 is disjointed after the transference and it returns by using, say, due to own engine, the decrement will be the same as after separation – though in standard special relativity both [at returning] paths are slow clock transports and in both cases the times of both clocks after the return must be equal.

Such an experiment indeed tests special relativity, in contrast to a multitude of that were made till now – all those experiments were made in the rigid systems and so nothing essential were tested…

Cheers
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Ryan Callahan
Anonymous





PostPosted: October 06 2011  Reply with quote

Anonymous
looks like you're talking to youself...
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Anonymous






PostPosted: October 06 2011  Reply with quote

Ryan Callahan wrote:
Anonymous
looks like you're talking to youself...


- Why? Anybody - and you, of course, - can read the posts and pointed arXiv papers also...

Cheers
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Maciej Bilicki



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 18
Affiliation: University of Cape Town

PostPosted: October 07 2011  Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Ryan Callahan wrote:
Anonymous
looks like you're talking to youself...


- Why? Anybody - and you, of course, - can read the posts and pointed arXiv papers also...

Cheers


Indeed - but no-one seems to answer your posts...

M
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